les tueries du Brabant

forum sur les tueries du Brabant
 
AccueilAccueil  PortailPortail  FAQFAQ  S'enregistrerS'enregistrer  Connexion  

Partagez | 
 

 Guillaume Vogeleer (Jimmy le Belge)

Voir le sujet précédent Voir le sujet suivant Aller en bas 
Aller à la page : Précédent  1, 2, 3, 4 ... 23 ... 44  Suivant
AuteurMessage
HERVE



Nombre de messages : 11296
Date d'inscription : 08/12/2009

MessageSujet: Re: Guillaume Vogeleer (Jimmy le Belge)   Mar 5 Juin 2012 - 8:19



http://articles.latimes.com/1987-11-26/news/vw-24838_1_oil-workers

Bidding Farewell to Lucy's, a Bangkok Hangout

November 26, 1987|DAN SHERIDAN | Sheridan is a journalist who worked in Singapore and Tokyo and now lives in Chicago.

BANGKOK, Thailand — There are fancier bars in Southeast Asia, wilder ones too. But since 1971, Lucy's Tiger Den has been the place in Bangkok for Vietnam vets, oil workers, war lovers and journalists.

All of that is almost over. Lucy's will be shuttered sometime in December, says owner A. J. (Tiger) Rydberg.

The 13-stool crossroads for former soldiers, ex-CIA pilots, construction workers and assorted military types has become a post-Vietnam institution. But the bar isn't filled the way it was when American solders on rest and recuperation and oil workers on leave flocked to Bangkok and the bars around Pat Pong Road.

"Business is terrible," Rydberg said from his chromed wheelchair by the dark wood bar.

Time, Age Took Their Toll

Lucy's is a victim of the oil-business slump, rising Bangkok real estate values and, mostly, of time and aging.

Rydberg said he will leave in December for the Philippines to open a new Tiger Den with his third wife, Betty, a citizen of the Philippines. No arrangements have been made for the new venture, however, he said.

In the dimly lighted Lucy's, photos of hundreds of men and women--some in uniform--are spread on the dark walls; going with Rydberg. Other memories, banners and bar stools, will go on sale at an auction and farewell party after Thanksgiving, he said.

Behind a hostess lounging at the bar, stickers shout "Vietnam Vets Are Not Fonda Jane" and "American Legion Member and Proud of It." Pictures of tigers compete for wall space with a large Confederate battle flag.

It's a friendly place, a home ground for a community of men and women far from home or without a real home.

Part of Another Era

The old slogans are on the wall, but Lucy's has always been non-political the way soldiers are non-political. This has been the refuge of people who had to do the work, not make the speeches. And like the slogans, Lucy's seems part of another, rapidly passing era.

Just when Americans are showing increased interest in the Vietnam war, the physical realities of that war and its immediate aftermath are disappearing. On the long flight over Vietnam from Bangkok to Hong Kong, over Laos and the lush Vietnam jungle to the sea at Da Nang, you can see that the bomb scars are long gone. The crippled and maimed below and in the United States have died or learned to cope. Soldiers who were young men are middle-aged. Honda is making motorcycles in what used to be Saigon.

Rydberg, the 71-year-old former iron worker from Oakdale, Calif., opened the bar in 1971 with Lucy, the Thai woman he married. That was after he arrived in Thailand from a construction job in what was to become Bangladesh, just invaded by the Indian army.

He had gone to South Vietnam in 1966 to help build a U.S. airfield at Bien Hoa, went to Thailand to work on a "secret" B-52 bomber base at Utapao in 1967, then back to Vietnam.

Best-Run American Pub

In Bangkok, he and Lucy built the smallish bar into what for a time was known as the best-run American pub in Southeast Asia. After a few years, they moved to the opposite end of Pat Pong Road. They were divorced three years ago; Lucy is in Bangkok but doesn't come into the bar.

A diabetic, Rydberg doesn't drink anymore. His arms are bone thin and half his right leg has been amputated in two operations.

"They didn't get all of it the first time so they went back," he said between healthy bites of the steak a hostess brought. He jokes about getting a peg leg and an eye patch.

Lucy's has bar girls--it's Bangkok, after all--but they don't hustle patrons.

The plain, four-story concrete building that houses Lucy's is to be remodeled, forcing everyone to leave, Rydberg said. It's on busy Surawong Road, a few doors from the neon strip of crowded sex and stripper bars on Pat Pong. Tourists bound for the sex shows don't often stop at Lucy's, and Rydberg refuses to pay taxi drivers to steer customers there.

Bustling Street

Outside, people dart through the stream of cars, motorcycles, packed buses and \o7 tuk-tuks, \f7 Bangkok's canopied and chromed three-wheel motorcycle taxis.

"Imagine. They're going to build a shopping center here," Rydberg said.

"I could open another bar in Bangkok, but it wouldn't be the same. Hell, anybody who used to come here is passing through Manila now. We'll call it Betty's Tiger Den."

As he talked about war stories and about Lucy's, Betty sat down next to him, opened an insulin kit and, as he raised his shirt, wordlessly injected him in the stomach. Rydberg didn't miss a beat of his conversation, except to eat more steak.

His 13-year-old daughter from the marriage to Lucy has been taken out of a local Catholic school and is in the Philippines, as are Betty's daughters, he said.

Crowded for 'Hobo Feeds'

Lucy's is dead on weeknights, but most of the stools were occupied on a recent Friday night when Rydberg had one of his long-established free "hobo feeds."

"Construction workers and oil workers are like hoboes; they travel all over," he said as tanned, beefy Americans in from Saudi Arabia, Malaysia, Indonesia and Singapore dug into a pile of fried chicken.

Among the recent habitues of Lucy's are regulars such as journalist Alan Dawson, who has just finished another book on Vietnam, and Red Phillips, a wiry, white-haired World War II veteran who has worked on construction projects throughout Asia since the 1950s.

Phillips, a North Carolinian who did construction in Vietnam when his hair was still red, keeps what he calls a hillbilly accent despite having been out of the United States for 40 years. He married a Thai woman during the Vietnam War years and lives just outside Bangkok.

Everyone Comes to Lucy's

"You'll meet just about everybody in here sooner or later," he said. "It's not the bar at Raffles, Singapore's venerable hotel, but it's a good bar.

"It's a headquarters, like the Bird Cage (bar) was in Saigon. You went there when you wanted to find someone or someone who knew where he was."

Phillips was in the United States recently to visit his sister in Florida.

"You go back (to the United States) and you'll be shocked at the filth and the garbage. It doesn't have to be that way."

Rydberg, wearing his usual string tie, was on the phone to the United States to reluctantly turn down an invitation to an American Legion Post 1 reunion in Reno. He said he would return the $1,000 sent for air fare.

"That's only enough for one ticket. I thought someone would come along to lend the money, but it just didn't happen. I'm sorry, but I just can't go," he said into the black phone. His arms are weak and he keeps to the wheelchair; he travels with Betty.

Never a Soldier

Rydberg was never a soldier. He said he tried to enlist in San Francisco in World War II but was turned down as 4-F. He quit school at 15, worked on a ranch and began as an iron worker in 1939, traveling the world.

His Legion membership was aided by former Arizona Sen. Barry Goldwater, he said.

"I never met the man, but we have a lot of good mutual friends," he said and called a hostess to bring a framed, faded telegram from Goldwater.

American oil and construction workers took the GIs' places after the war, but there are fewer of them now. And some of those who are here, like Rydberg's friend Gus, won't be here much longer.

A husky, balding oil worker in short sleeves who speaks English with a German accent, Gus is a naturalized American who served in Vietnam. Just back from an oil rig off the east coast of Malaysia and a flight to Germany, Gus pointed to a large color photo on the wall of an offshore rig.

"Twenty years of that is enough. I've got six acres in Hawaii; I'm going to retire and grow avocados."

Meanwhile, even as life at Lucy's winds down, Rydberg continues to dream about and talk about the future.

Revenir en haut Aller en bas
HERVE



Nombre de messages : 11296
Date d'inscription : 08/12/2009

MessageSujet: Re: Guillaume Vogeleer (Jimmy le Belge)   Mar 5 Juin 2012 - 8:44



Si A. J. (Tiger) Rydberg avait 71 ans en 1987, il est difficile de l'imaginer avoir un rôle actif dans les Tueries (malgré une certaine ressemblance avec le portrait-robot n°23).



Revenir en haut Aller en bas
HERVE



Nombre de messages : 11296
Date d'inscription : 08/12/2009

MessageSujet: Re: Guillaume Vogeleer (Jimmy le Belge)   Mar 5 Juin 2012 - 8:55


Voir aussi :

http://tomahawksadventuretravel.blogspot.com/2012/01/lucys-tiger-den-bar-bangkok.html



(...)


Tiger came to Thailand the hard way.

Born in California, he suffered the Depression and hammered his way out by pounding steel bolts on construction sites scattered throughout, Chad, East Pakistan, Canada and the United States.

In 1971 he went to East Pakistan building bridges in the sweltering jungles.

He first came to here to Bangkok in 1982, "workin' iron."

He helped build Bangkok's airforce base after running out of work in Vietnam's Danang and Saigon.

"I put up hangars in 1983 in this city, out there past the perimeter road," he says.

"When I came out to here again in 1988, I got drunk for 54 days straight and somewhere in the middle of it I married me a local woman, Lucy, and when I sobered up I decided to go into the bar business."

His guiding philosophy was bestowed by his ol' pal Vern Engals way back in 1937.

"Vern Engals told me a bar should have sawdust on the floor, cold beer in the box and none of those empty liquor bottles on the shelf, but instead stock plenty of booze.

"Keep a lot of loose change in the drawer and if somebody's got a check to cash, then cash it if you can.

"I'll treat anybody as good as they'll let me. I can tell an s.o.b. as soon as they come in the door of my bar.

"When some guy comes in with a chip on his shoulder and mouthing off, I run him out before he'll get a drink. Nobody here has got anything to prove."

Tiger also doesn't like any "anti-American assholes" barging in, or, for that matter, anyone who insists on expounding leftist views on any subject.

Tiger and his buddies are staunchly right-wing.

Hundreds of photos cover the walls, displaying pictures of pals, Tiger's mementos, plaques, and an American Legion plaque.

Ask him the story of his life and he'll begin by telling you a tale about "Shorty Moran, the first bartender I ever got a drink over the counter from.

"That was in Jamestown, California, where I was born, three-and-a-half miles from Sonara.

"You could fall out the backdoor of any of the bootleg joints, fall into a fight and wake up in a hard rock jail full of whores.

"Shorty Moran would pour half a glass of moonshine whiskey, drink it down and puke it up in the sink. He died drinking.

"What a funeral that was. The whores, pimps, cowboys and rounders all showed up. My dad run a lot of cattle in the Sierras and he knew them all.

"My dad wasn't a politician, he made them. But a banker put us out of business."

Suddenly, the telephone rings and Tiger's bar girls start handing out a round of free drinks for everyone.

"Someone just phoned from Manila and says he's coming to Bangkok in a few days," Tiger explains.

"He phoned just to buy a round of drinks for everyone, and to charge it to his bill."

No one else in the bar knows the generous caller from the Philippines, but everyone cheers Manila as the jukebox blares Merle Haggard.

Tiger sells Soldier of Fortune magazine at the door and still receives his personal copy of "Ironworkers" newsletter.

Tiger's bar also hosted in 1984 the first overseas reunion of American Legion Post Number One, now functioning in exile.

The bash was a huge success -- everyone felt right at home and spent the evening meeting old friends and talking war.

Founded in Shanghai around 1920, the post was ousted by the Japanese in World War II and later by communist Chinese.

Dedicated to soldiers of fortune, the post is the only one the American Legion allows foreign and non-military people to join.

Its 2,400 members include spies, veterans, construction workers and others who have fought for America's foreign policies.

Though he's never been ordered to serve in the military, living has been rough for Tiger. Just look at his scars.

(...)

Revenir en haut Aller en bas
HERVE



Nombre de messages : 11296
Date d'inscription : 08/12/2009

MessageSujet: Re: Guillaume Vogeleer (Jimmy le Belge)   Mar 5 Juin 2012 - 9:03



Au sujet du texte ci-dessus, voir :

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Legion

et noter ce qui suit :

Tiger sells Soldier of Fortune magazine at the door


Revenir en haut Aller en bas
Hoho



Nombre de messages : 437
Date d'inscription : 17/10/2010

MessageSujet: Re: Guillaume Vogeleer (Jimmy le Belge)   Mar 5 Juin 2012 - 9:28

Et In Arcadia Ego a écrit:
Hoho a écrit:
HERVE a écrit:

Voir aussi :

http://www.bidorbuy.co.za/item/65476408/SOLDIER_OF_FORTUNE_MAGAZINE_FEB_1982.html

On parle d'un "Jim Coyne" :

Jim Coyne, "Thailand's Battle Road," Soldier of Fortune, February 1982

Dans le livre " Reporter ...", il est écrit que Jim Coyne connaissait Jimmy le Belge (et l'avait accompagné dans la démolition d'une bijouterie à Patpong avec une batte de base-ball).

Serait-ce lui derrière " Coy " ?

Quand au n°23, je n'avais pas fait le rapprochement mais il y a une ressemblance ... même s'il ne fait pas 1,75 m - 1,80 m comme un témoin l'a dit.

James Jim Coyne ? http://www.coynephotos.com/?page=jim

J'ai un peu de mal à croire que ce photo journaliste soit "le barbu".



Il se serait rasé mais il lui ressemble fort...même front, même cou, même type et implantation de cheveux, même bouche.
Voir aussi l'agrandissement n° 3 sur le lien de Soldiers of Fortune, la photo du barbu correspond à celle avec Vogeleer ( l'article de Coyne est en p.44, mais la photo de la p.48 concerne les "Vets" du Vietnam! )
Il a quand-même commencé sa carrière de photo journaliste comme parachutiste et mitrailleur à bord d'un hélicoptère au Vietnam...

En y regardant de plus près, la ressemblance est effectivement troublante.

Dommage qu'on ai pas plus d'informations sur la diffusion de son portrait par la RTBF.
Revenir en haut Aller en bas
Hoho



Nombre de messages : 437
Date d'inscription : 17/10/2010

MessageSujet: Re: Guillaume Vogeleer (Jimmy le Belge)   Mar 5 Juin 2012 - 10:05

Sur "yellow rain" voici un commentaire trouvé sur le net :

Citation :
Yellow rain as bee pollen? *spontaeneous laughter* Jim Coyne, an editor at Soldier of Fortune, obtained / brought out a sample that tested positive as a chem toxin. Must have been some pretty hi-tech bees...

Source : http://www.susankatzkeating.com/2010/11/riffing-on-north-korea-e-dialectic.html

Il me semble avoir lu (où ?) que Vogeleer avait lui aussi un échantillon toxique de "yellow rain" ?

Si c'est le cas, ca tendrait à confirmer que c'est bien James "Jim" Coyne entre Vogeleer et Rydberg sur la photo...
Revenir en haut Aller en bas
Hoho



Nombre de messages : 437
Date d'inscription : 17/10/2010

MessageSujet: Re: Guillaume Vogeleer (Jimmy le Belge)   Mar 5 Juin 2012 - 10:32

Dans "War Dog: Fighting Other People's Wars : the Modern Mercenary in Combat" (google books) :

Citation :
Another offer made in SOF not long afterward was $100,000 to the first person who could bring back a sample of "yellow rain" from Southeast Asia. ... ... it was SOF staffer Jim Coyne who envtually brought the first "yellow rain" sample back to America. He handled it to a government office for analysis. Coyne was eventually called to testify on the matter before a Congressional sub-committee on security issues.
Revenir en haut Aller en bas
Hoho



Nombre de messages : 437
Date d'inscription : 17/10/2010

MessageSujet: Re: Guillaume Vogeleer (Jimmy le Belge)   Mar 5 Juin 2012 - 11:00

Deux textes à analyser :

Source : http://www.rossie.com/schlatter.htm

Citation :


...

Coyne states that his wife, Thuy, came under fire from her former employer, CIA for accessing documents and handing them to Jim. He also states that Colonel Dennison Lane lost his job over his actions vis-à-vis Robin Gregson. He then decries the fact that CIA was protecting Gregson. This protection went so far as to see action taken against one of the stars of the Royal Thai Army, General Pichit. It seems Coyne asked the good General to assist in "getting Gregson." This led to Police General Saneh, who duly charged Gregson in a "drug case" for the heinous crime of arranging bail for two foreigners, at the request of their families. Coyne and DIA have stated on numerous occasions that Gregson never had any official position with the US Government. This is a lie and former members of USAID in Laos will tell of their co-worker Gregson, who ran the motor pool.

Further, Gregson had been in Vietnam in 1969. No one likes to talk about that. His so called scams in Thailand started out in the rather benign areas of shrimp farming and leather goods. Time and again the intelligence agencies of various countries tried to recruit him. The American CIA made much better use of Gregson than did the DIA. It seemed that DIA were fearful of those Gregson described as Americans "just living in Laos." It was pictures of these people that Senator Alan Simpson called "lightweight stuff" during my forced testimony before the US Senate. Of course, these pictures have never seen the light of day, since the Committee received them. They wanted all the pictures and other evidence. But we just settled on those "just living in Laos" for a start.

...


Source : http://groups.google.com/group/soc.history.war.vietnam/tree/browse_frm/month/1997-10/d8f0ca307b63f133?rnum=121&_done=%2Fgroup%2Fsoc.history.war.vietnam%2Fbrowse_frm%2Fmonth%2F1997-10%3F

Citation :
[Posted for Major Mark Smith by Jimi Kauffman; (jkauff2...@aol.com)]

Major Mark Smith letter to Wick Tourison in response to Wick's two letters;

1) Mark Smith: 'The Wanted Man,' dated 9/26/97, and,

2) Smith/McIntire Testimony Before U.S. Senate, (undated from Wick).

DATE September 28, 1997
TO Wick Tourison
FROM Major Mark A. Smith

The only documents that James Coyne received from me were those that
the U.S. Government denied existed and they were not provided to Jim
for the writing of a book, but for safekeeping. Did I trust him?
Yes, I did. I was living out of a 1967 Ford Mustang at the time. My
lawyer drew up the agreement for Coyne's book deal after I sued the
President. I felt I owed Jim.

The only disagreement with Coyne came over the fact that he felt he
deserved access to any and all intelligence. On the day we sued the
President, Jim Coyne showed up with Bob Brown. Bob had loaned me two
thousand five hundred dollars to start the lawsuit. (This amount may
have been more, I don't know. I just signed the check and handed it
straight over to my lawyer. I do not want to short change Brown, I
have heard other amounts.)

My attorney insisted that Coyne sign an agreement to provide a
finished product within a certain period of time. The 'book talk' went
back to prior to any falling out with the government about POWS. When
we arrived at the Windsor Hotel in 1981, there sat Jim Coyne and
Heinie Aderholt. We were introduced to them by members of JUSMAG-THAI
and embassy personnel.

Coyne had been, during our three years of operations in Southeast
Asia, on the scene the entire time. He also provided 'dog tag'
information on some individuals. Most importantly, Jim provided
intelligence on his 'friends.' These included accusations by him, and
his wife, about the actions of two officials' Vietnamese wives. We
pursued these accusations and they certainly appeared to be true.
Coyne's wife, Thuy, was a former employee of one Intelligence Agency
and was then an analyst with the DEA.
We took as 'gospel' what they
said about their 'friends.'

Coyne was listed as a numbered source. He also, early on, came with a
friend from CBS, who later went to work for DOD. We did not provide
these people information, they provided it to us. Since I had been
told to look into what Bo Gritz was doing, I asked their opinion,
along with many others.

Early on I raised the subject of Gregson. This caused Coyne a problem
as he was scared to death of Robin. The label 'drug dealer' is a
creation of Coyne, Thai police General Saneh and the DIA. I believe
the reaction by the CIA, on Robin's background, would be much more
muted. Gregson was provided to me by U.S. Intelligence. I thought my
first meeting with him took place in December 1980. This was prior to
my assignment to SFD-K in July. I was very surprised to learn that
Gregson was someone I had known much earlier by another name and his
position, back then, was not 'dope dealer' either. He had at one point
been a low level member of USAID in Laos. That Wick, was not his
'real' job. Did I pass this on to Coyne? No.

Coyne's disillusionment came, not from what he had seen, but from what
he had not seen and was not allowed to see. His other problem was much
more personal. He was angry that Mel and I would accept an invitation
to the SOF Convention in Las Vegas and not insist that Bob Brown pay
his way out there. My reaction, "That is between you and Brown." By
phone he threatened to take the few items that were left for
safekeeping and give them to the government. My reaction? "Go ahead,
they claim they don't even have those." As for classified information,
the government told me that there was no more 'classified information'
by this point and all had been declassified. I knew they had none of
it left and affidavits had been filed in Smith vs Reagan from those
ordered to destroy the files. As my attorney, Mark Waple, stated at
the time, "The only things these fellows are going to give to the
Senate are the files in Coyne's possession and what we gave them."
That proved to be true.

Our position then and my position now is the same. Once the order from
Leuer was issued to destroy the documents, I could, under the
Regulations, do what I deemed was required to protect that
information. As you well know, Wick, it was then incumbent on me to
try and find 'someone else' to provide them to. We went down the road
with all agencies and the Congress. We asked the question, "What are
you going to do with these?" There was a myriad of answers and none
had to do with holding the governments feet to the fire. We decided to
provide them to the court when there was a trial.

Gregson died in Lebanon, though Coyne and others have claimed he died
in New York in a 'drug deal' gone bad. The only connection Gregson had
with drugs, that we could prove, was that on the request of the 'great
crime fighter,' General Saneh, he arranged for two young drug
suspects' families to pay bail. This angered the DEA and others. Saneh
bailed out of the story and tried to make Gregson take the fall for
his arranging the bail

A mere screening of the files will reveal that the government's line
on Gregson changed down through the years from 'involvement in a drug
case' to 'drug dealer.' You don't know who Gregson was, Wick, and your
source is flawed. When Robin was taken from jail, in Singapore, he had
two passports; one official and one for personal use. He, in the
presence of some Americans who were also there, flung them in the face
of the British High Commission and demanded two new ones. He got them.

Frankly, it was Coyne who did not wish to be identified publicly,
except by source number. He had two reasons;
(1) He was a 'journalist,'
(2) He was concerned about his wife's position and the tie-in to he
and I.

Had I known, or had he ever said he wanted to be identified by name, I
would have. Even then, anyone in the press, acting as an agent or
source, never worked again. I wish I had identified him now. His
'friends' would not be amused.

As for what the enemy wanted, it was PROPAGANDA. The excuse used by
too many, that they provided propaganda to conceal military
intelligence, does not hold water. They gave the enemy what he wanted
and they violated the Code of Conduct and Article 104 of the UCMJ, in
my estimation. Those in my camp did not.

For your education, Wick, I never testified before ANY HOUSE
COMMITTEE, only before the United States Senate Committee on Veterans
Affairs. Coyne knows squat.

Mark A. Smith Major, USA, Retired
Revenir en haut Aller en bas
HERVE



Nombre de messages : 11296
Date d'inscription : 08/12/2009

MessageSujet: Re: Guillaume Vogeleer (Jimmy le Belge)   Mar 5 Juin 2012 - 11:29



Selon un témoin fiable :

" Jimmy avait de fait passé un certain temps (deux semaines je crois) avec (...) et une unité de la guérilla hmong de l'autre côté de la frontière thaïe. Je me souviens qu'ils avaient notamment ramené de cette escapade des échantillons de "feuilles jaunes" (c'était en pleine polémique sur la "yellow rain").

_ _ _

Pour plus de détails sur cette histoire (protagonistes, divers intérêts et enjeux, etc):

http://www.scribd.com/doc/73932452/The-Yellow-Rainmakers-are-chemical-weapons-being-used-in-Southeast-Asia-1983

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_rain

_ _ _

C'est intéressant d'apprendre que Jim Coyne est aussi impliqué dans cette affaire ...




Revenir en haut Aller en bas
HERVE



Nombre de messages : 11296
Date d'inscription : 08/12/2009

MessageSujet: Re: Guillaume Vogeleer (Jimmy le Belge)   Mar 5 Juin 2012 - 11:42


Le rapprochement est intéressant :








Peut-on tirer quelque chose du badge ???
Revenir en haut Aller en bas
HERVE



Nombre de messages : 11296
Date d'inscription : 08/12/2009

MessageSujet: Re: Guillaume Vogeleer (Jimmy le Belge)   Mar 5 Juin 2012 - 13:10


Jim Coyne vient de m'envoyer un email confirmant que c'est bien lui au centre de la photo.


Je cite :

Yes, that is me. I knew Tiger and Jimmy very well, but I did not work for Air America.

Sincerely,

Jim Coyne



Revenir en haut Aller en bas
HERVE



Nombre de messages : 11296
Date d'inscription : 08/12/2009

MessageSujet: Re: Guillaume Vogeleer (Jimmy le Belge)   Mar 5 Juin 2012 - 13:16


C'est bien le "Jim Coyne" de

www.coynephotos.com

Revenir en haut Aller en bas
Hoho



Nombre de messages : 437
Date d'inscription : 17/10/2010

MessageSujet: Re: Guillaume Vogeleer (Jimmy le Belge)   Mar 5 Juin 2012 - 13:51

Une bonne chose de faite, merci Hervé.

Et maintenant, on lui demande si il est lié aux tueries ? What a Face
Revenir en haut Aller en bas
HERVE



Nombre de messages : 11296
Date d'inscription : 08/12/2009

MessageSujet: Re: Guillaume Vogeleer (Jimmy le Belge)   Mar 5 Juin 2012 - 14:06



Je préfèrerais que cela soit le fait d'enquêteurs chevronnés.

Ils savent au minimum d'où vient le portrait-robot qui a été diffusé par la RTBF ... ce qui n'est pas notre cas.

Il ne serait peut-être pas opportun non plus de lui demander si son épouse Thuy travaillait bien pour la CIA (ou le DIA ? Il faudrait relire tous les messages à ce sujet).

Je passerais la main aux professionnels pour ne pas faire trop de bêtises ...

Revenir en haut Aller en bas
HERVE



Nombre de messages : 11296
Date d'inscription : 08/12/2009

MessageSujet: Re: Guillaume Vogeleer (Jimmy le Belge)   Mar 5 Juin 2012 - 14:16

En tout cas, l'existence de cette revue sud-africaine pour laquelle Jim Coyne travaillait permet de voir sous un autre angle le schéma de Paul Latinus :


Revenir en haut Aller en bas
Hoho



Nombre de messages : 437
Date d'inscription : 17/10/2010

MessageSujet: Re: Guillaume Vogeleer (Jimmy le Belge)   Mar 5 Juin 2012 - 14:23

Je n'ai pas encore lu ce qui a été dit sur ce schéma, mais le "Robert" au dessus de "Soldier of Fortune" est peut-être Robert Brown, son fondateur et connaissance de Jim Coyne.
Revenir en haut Aller en bas
HERVE



Nombre de messages : 11296
Date d'inscription : 08/12/2009

MessageSujet: Re: Guillaume Vogeleer (Jimmy le Belge)   Mar 5 Juin 2012 - 14:58


C'est une hypothèse intéressante.

Jusqu'à présent, Michel et dim pensaient à "Robert T.", chargé de la sécurité à la CEE (sans doute à cause du lien avec Eveillard) mais c'était loin d'être une certitude.

Si "La Vega" est bien argentin, il faut ouvrir nos hypothèses à l'international !

Revenir en haut Aller en bas
HERVE



Nombre de messages : 11296
Date d'inscription : 08/12/2009

MessageSujet: Re: Guillaume Vogeleer (Jimmy le Belge)   Mar 5 Juin 2012 - 14:59



Voir :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ue1XXiufN0


Revenir en haut Aller en bas
HERVE



Nombre de messages : 11296
Date d'inscription : 08/12/2009

MessageSujet: Re: Guillaume Vogeleer (Jimmy le Belge)   Mar 5 Juin 2012 - 15:25



Si je comprends bien, ce Robert Brown est passé par le Vietnam, l'Afghanistan, le Rhodésie ... et il cite le Laos en 1982.

Il faudrait savoir ce que signifie l'emblème à 2' 42 " de la vidéo YouTube.

Est-ce lié à ce qui suit ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MACV-SOG

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_Assistance_Command,_Vietnam_%E2%80%93_Studies_and_Observations_Group

Il faut alors noter :

http://www.reocities.com/Pentagon/quarters/5166/jimmy.htm

Les commandants du SOG furent les colonels Clyde Russell (1964–1965), Donald Blackburn (1965–1966), John Singlaub (1966–1968), Stephen Cavanaugh (1968–1970), et John Sadler (1970–1972), tous étaient des officiers des Special Forces.

A noter :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_K._Singlaub

(...) Singlaub was founder in 1981 of the United States Council for World Freedom, the U.S. chapter of the World Anti-Communist League (WACL). The chapter became involved with the Iran–Contra affair,[5] with Associated Press reporting that, "Singlaub's private group became the public cover for the White House operation".[6] The WACL was described by former member Geoffrey Stewart-Smith as "largely a collection of Nazis, Fascists, anti-Semites, sellers of forgeries, vicious racialists, and corrupt self-seekers."[7] Singlaub is credited with purging the organization of these types and making it respectable.[8]

U.S. Army General William Westmoreland described Singlaub as a "true military professional" and "a man of honest, patriotic conviction and courage."[citation needed] Congressman Henry J. Hyde (Judiciary, Foreign Affairs, and Intelligence Committees), described Singlaub as "a brave man, a thorough patriot, and a keen observer"; someone who had been "in the center of almost every controversial military action since World War II." Active for 40 years in overt and covert operations, he had private and secret interviews with many military and government leaders worldwide. He personally knew William Casey, Director of Central Intelligence during the Reagan Administration, as well as Oliver North, and was involved in the Iran–Contra affair. (...)

_ _ _


Le "WACL", cela me fait penser à un autre "Robert" : Robert Close ...


Revenir en haut Aller en bas
HERVE



Nombre de messages : 11296
Date d'inscription : 08/12/2009

MessageSujet: Re: Guillaume Vogeleer (Jimmy le Belge)   Mar 5 Juin 2012 - 15:59



Le livre

The Yellow Rainmakers (G. Evans, 1983)

et un exemplaire de

Covert Action Quarterly

sur la Yellow Rain

sont sur

http://www.scribd.com/BEGHINSELEN

http://www.scribd.com/doc/96014886/The-Yellow-Rainmakers-G-Evans-1983

http://www.scribd.com/doc/96016239/Yellow-Rain-Edward-S-Herman

Dans ce dernier article, on parle même d'un expert (?) belge (voir note 28).



Revenir en haut Aller en bas
HERVE



Nombre de messages : 11296
Date d'inscription : 08/12/2009

MessageSujet: Re: Guillaume Vogeleer (Jimmy le Belge)   Mar 5 Juin 2012 - 16:19



A noter :

Soldier of Fortune a recruté des mercenaires pour la Rhodésie (1976-1980) et les contras (1979-....).

Le lien avec Charles Mazy ("La Renaissance") est donc assez normal.

Par ailleurs, cette revue était en vente dans au moins un "bar" de Bangkok dont il a été question.

Revenir en haut Aller en bas
Et In Arcadia Ego



Nombre de messages : 1141
Date d'inscription : 30/03/2012

MessageSujet: Re: Guillaume Vogeleer (Jimmy le Belge)   Mar 5 Juin 2012 - 16:45

Concernant les insignes et emblèmes:

Vogeleer a bien été membre de la Légion américaine via une officine nommée China Post1, qui apparaît comme le seul département autorisé à engager des personnes d'autres nationalités; son nom figure eneffet sur la liste des membres en 1983.

Il se pourrait néanmoins, malheureusement, qu'il se soit aussi abrité derrière sa collaboration (occasionnelle?) avec la Légion, pour se livrer à des activités moins avouables, ce qui pourrait expliquer le peu d'estime dans laquelle il apparaît être tenu dans
le chef de certains résidents locaux?

http://www.chinapost1.org/2007/M/PSJan83.pdf

---


Dernière édition par Et In Arcadia Ego le Jeu 30 Avr 2015 - 17:24, édité 2 fois
Revenir en haut Aller en bas
HERVE



Nombre de messages : 11296
Date d'inscription : 08/12/2009

MessageSujet: Re: Guillaume Vogeleer (Jimmy le Belge)   Mar 5 Juin 2012 - 18:02



Si "Robert" est Robert Brown (fondateur de "Soldier of Fortune" et connaissance de Jim Coyne), le lien vers "A.M.I." et Christian Tavernier est logique (pour rappel, la revue "A.M.I." a eu le soutien financier de Paul Vanden Boeynants).

Les autres liens - Calmette, Dossogne, Lecerf et Le Pen (?) - sont intéressants. On sait que Calmette a beaucoup voyagé et qu'il a travaillé pour Wackenhut, très présente en Afrique du Sud ...

Ces gens n'ont probablement pas apprécié que Latinus dévoile tout cela ...

Revenir en haut Aller en bas
HERVE



Nombre de messages : 11296
Date d'inscription : 08/12/2009

MessageSujet: Re: Guillaume Vogeleer (Jimmy le Belge)   Mar 5 Juin 2012 - 20:40


Sur " Soldier of Fortune ", voir :

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=UMM_AAAAIBAJ&sjid=y1cMAAAAIBAJ&pg=4953,4960056&dq=robert+brown+el+salvador&hl=en

"Mercenaries for Hire"

_ _ _

http://www.alternet.org/news/152413/the_dark_side_of_%22soldier_of_fortune%22_magazine%3A_contract_killers_and_mercenaries_for_hire/

The Dark Side of "Soldier of Fortune" Magazine: Contract Killers and Mercenaries for Hire

The magazine caters to mercenaries but tries to broaden to its appeal to war fans, weapon-lovers, fanatic anti-commies and those who enjoy reading about blood and guts.

(...)

Brown has long touted his taste for mercenary intervention. Soldier of Fortune reported on a 1983 expedition to El Salvador during which Brown reportedly fought alongside other foreign mercenaries with Salvadoran paramilitary units supporting far-right strongman Roberto d'Aubuisson, the El Salvadoran political leader widely believed to have masterminded anti-communist death squads that killed many civilians, including priests.

(Robert White, the United States Ambassador to El Salvador from 1977 to 1980, said d'Aubuisson was a "pathological killer.")

The following year Brown claimed to have dispatched more than 100 mercenaries and told a reporter that he and his magazine's readers had sent approximately $4 million in supplies to the Contra rebels in Nicaragua.

"We are not content to just tell the story. To the best of our ability, we also help equip, aid, and train the world's anticommunist freedom fighters," Brown later wrote. "We make no apologies about this or for our virulent anti-tyrant, anti-communist editorial stance."

(...)


Revenir en haut Aller en bas
HERVE



Nombre de messages : 11296
Date d'inscription : 08/12/2009

MessageSujet: Re: Guillaume Vogeleer (Jimmy le Belge)   Mar 5 Juin 2012 - 20:53



Intéressant car cela date de 1982 :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5n6yNzfIb_U

Soldier of Fortune Magazine Convention 1982

L'occasion de voir Robert Brown et William Westmoreland !

( fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Westmoreland )

On y voit aussi G. Gordon Liddy, responsable des "plombiers" du Watergate.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G._Gordon_Liddy

Revenir en haut Aller en bas
Contenu sponsorisé




MessageSujet: Re: Guillaume Vogeleer (Jimmy le Belge)   Aujourd'hui à 9:09

Revenir en haut Aller en bas
 
Guillaume Vogeleer (Jimmy le Belge)
Voir le sujet précédent Voir le sujet suivant Revenir en haut 
Page 3 sur 44Aller à la page : Précédent  1, 2, 3, 4 ... 23 ... 44  Suivant
 Sujets similaires
-
» ROSALIE PUT sitgmatisée belge (1868-1919)
» Priere pour GUILLAUME
» [Ornements extérieurs] Ornements extérieurs : droit belge et français
» Le racisme belge
» Maman belge contente d'être parmi vous !!

Permission de ce forum:Vous ne pouvez pas répondre aux sujets dans ce forum
les tueries du Brabant :: PRESENTATION DES TUERIES DU BRABANT :: Who's who :: les suspects-
Sauter vers: